Saturday, October 28, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 227 - Err on the Side of . . .


Everything is hard before it is easy. -- Goethe

Hello all. I hope you had a great week.  Mine was, once again, way too busy.  I come into this Saturday morning really wishing things were a little less hectic.  But, I know that as soon as things slow down, I will go into a panic about that, too.  Do you ever feel like you are on a hamster-wheel, but that it is almost entirely self-created? That's kind of where I am right now.  But, there is little sign that things will slow down until next year, so my self-created panic at the prospect of working only 50 hours a week can be pushed out for at least a couple of months.

Irritability from over work may have been showing in my exchange with my most persistent troll. I've taken down the comments (his and mine), but the exchange at least had the  side effect of committing me to an idea for this week's post.  It's been a couple of years since I devoted a topic to this, but let's talk about "severity" and "more."  Specifically, for the men (and the few female DD recipients who visit here), setting aside whatever your current baseline is, how severe or strict do you want your discipline and the control exercised over you to be?

Let's start with this premise -- if you are receiving a real disciplinary spanking, you do not enjoy it.   So, let's assume that if you are in a real DD relationship in which you get real spankings, they hurt.  They are supposed to.  But, if you had your choice, would you want her to ease up a little? Or, is the opposite true -- do you wish she would spank you harder?

What about frequency? Does she spank you as often as you deserve?  As often as needed to correct the behavior?  If you could change the frequency in any way, do you think you should be spanked more frequently or less frequently?

What about the non-spanking aspects of a DD relationship, particularly the overall strictness of her demeanor?  Would you like your disciplinarian to act more strict, or less?  When it comes to controlling your behavior and setting boundaries for you, do you want her to be more tough and consistent in her approach, or is it too much already? And, if you do want her to be more strict with you and more rigorous in laying down the law, how open do you want that to be?  I'm not talking about revealing the spanking side of the DD relationship but, rather, to what degree do you want her to display signs that she wears the pants?

If you do fall into the "more" camp and you are willing to share, do you have any perspective on why you want more? Why do you want the spankings to be harder?  Why do you want her to be more strict with you?  What need would that fulfill for you?

I've posted a poll about this, and I hope all the readers who drop by this week and are actually in a DD relationship will check one response to each ordered pair.  I ran a similar poll over two years ago, and it set the bar for lop-sided results.  The "more" answers just crushed the "less" answers.  It was not even close.  It seemed to refute any view that those on the receiving end of the paddle in these relationships would want anything else, except that a huge number of them would like their disciplinarian to step it up!  I thought at the time that it should comfort budding Disciplinary Wives who have a nagging doubt about whether, if she does take on the role of a strict disciplinarian, will it prove to be more than he wanted?  I think the answer in most cases is no, he really does want  everything you are giving him and more.  Resoundingly so.

But it does suggest a couple of follow-up questions:  Have you told your wife you want more and, if so, what was her reaction?  And, if she did step it up, how did you react? Did it come closer to meeting your needs, or was it a "beware of what you wish for . .  ." situation?

By the way, I know the poll does not have a "Goldilocks" everything is just right set of answers.  If everything is just right, then just don't answer the poll.  And congratulations!

Have a great week.

36 comments:

  1. Great questions.
    My personal problem is the original premise. I DO enjoy the spanking, whether Fun, Discipline, or Punishment.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pain, ofttimes for days later, but in the moment of the spanking, no matter how much I'm gritting my teeth, and deep-breathing (I am not vocal), I don't want it to stop. A spanking, for me, is not a deterrent against bad behavior, but fortunately, I am so consistently well behaved, I don't need a deterrent.:-)
    Merry often spanks with an implement too light to get my attention, or she doesn't spend enough time (like, two minutes). I've even told her, if all you have is two minutes, don't bother". Of course, it remains at her discretion, but this has become a bone of contention.

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  2. Morning Dan et al. I’m not looking to promote salacious stories but for so many of us that have wanted to have her be stricter and give more I’m glad you asked those who have experienced it, to comment about it. i’m assuming that it’s not always a matter of a new bar of severity being set that then every spanking is ratcheted up to. There have to be instances where there have been specific spankings that stand out for their severity. I think it will be fascinating to hear from those that unexpectedly did get what they thought they wanted. What was that “OMG moment” in your head like when you first realize she’s not STOPPING..... she rampaging it up!

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    1. Hi Darren. My "ah hah" moments have not been around severity of the spankings, so much as increased control. I've recounted being spanked for not doing the dishes or other chores. That one kind of came out of the thin air and was, in terms of accountability, a significant ramping up.

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  3. Goldilocks? When it comes to DD I'm more like "Johnny Rocco"in Key Largo.

    That said, I'm very happy to have what I have and Rosa is serious about being in charge and being the disciplinarian. But I think it's natural for Tops in general to not see the need for harsh discipline as much as the subs who crave it. I'm not sure WHY that is......but I've been around long enough to know it IS.

    As for 'why' I would want things ramped up, I suppose it has to do with my personal feelings of 'trade-off'. I see the submission on my part not as a concession but as half of a bargain, and I suppose my feeling is that I want Rosa to hold up her end of the bargain. It's like: "ok you will get all the perks of being in charge, and I'll defer to you, but in exchange for my obedience, I do want attention. I want my submission to matter to you. I don't want to purposefully misbehave to get attention, but I guess I want to think that IF I DO screw up, there will be consequences. When there aren't I begin to question why I'm deferring at all. If things you've told me are important don't have consequences how am I supposed to believe they truly ARE important?"

    So that's kind of why I think added strictness would be beneficial.

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    1. Hi KD. For me, I don't see the "trade-off" aspect as the source of desire for things to ramp up, but I definitely do see it as a source of my frustration when the ramp up does not happen. I think it is totally legit to insist that if someone is going to get the "perks of being in charge," then they step up to the responsibilities that entails. This is one of my big, big problems with the concept that once you are in an FLR, you are supposed to defer to her leadership even if her "exercise" consists mainly of failing to actually lead or to carry out her side of the bargain. Whether in business organizations or a marriage, the fact that someone has bestowed a management title on you does not make you a manager worth folowing, and real leadership is even harder.

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  4. Dan, after a very embarrassing, for me, outburst from Bart, where he angrily shouted at a police officer who stopped him for aggressive driving .Bart had suggested that I wasn’t really punishing him during our infrequent sessions.

    I was so angry about his attitude that while I usually calm myself and don’t spank in anger I really lost my temper.

    He seemed shocked my my intensity and he was most remorseful ,

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    1. Hi Sylvia. I know disciplinarians are often cautioned not to spank in anger, though I wonder if that is not, in fact, what many of the men are actually looking for.

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    2. I don't think it makes any sense to set things up that a woman should not spank in anger. I understand the reasoning. But what could possibly be more theraputic for her and a more completely genuine experience then "completing the scene" in real time?

      I understand about the waiting, and anticipating, and all that. And handling things that way absolutely belongs in a DWC wife's bag of options. But there is something really compelling and pure about the real thing in real time.

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    3. Tomy, while I see Alan's point, I tend to agree with you. The more genuinely riled she is with me, the more I get into a mindset of really feeling why I am about to be spanked.

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  5. Hi Dan,
    Being punished by a really angry women is probably a fantasy for some but not after one or two experiences with it. Its not the intensity of the spanking so much but the emotional pain it imposes on both of you. What I do think many men want ( back to one of your questions) is verbal strictness, serious lectures and/or scolding prior to and during spanking. For me the reason for that is simple: the stricter she is, the more she scolds, the easier it is to obey and submit. Scolding if it works for you makes you feel like a naughty boy who deserves to be spanked and it puts her in total command from the beginning.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. It could be. I can't think of a time mine has been what I would call seriously angry before a spanking. To some extent, that is because there is often a fairly significant time gap between the crime and the punishment.

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    2. I suppose I am a bit lucky (or unlucky? ) with this issue because I seem to have a disciplinarian in Rosa who if too angry WILL avoid punishment until she is more in control of herself. BUT, once she decides it's time, she has the uncanny ability to sit with me over her lap and allow her previous anger to return in a controlled way so as to use to both fuel the spanking and also to allow it to be released. You have to see it to believe it. She will sometimes almost be cheerful when telling me it is time, and she can even be playful in the preparation, but once we are in position she does this "channeling the past incident" thing and her whole demeanor changes. Depending on how much she focuses and re-absorbs her past anger, the worse the spanking is for me. I wonder how many other disciplinarians do a similar process?

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    3. Not surprising at all. Isn't it the case that most women forgive, but never forget? :-)

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    4. Hi KD,
      I have noticed the exact same thing with my wife. She will confront me with something, visibly angry at the time. Then it might be days until the punishment takes place. During this time, she will be perfectly fine, almost as if all is forgotten, or if she does say anything about it, she will say it in kind of a joking manner. Then when punishment time rolls around, she becomes very passionate about the issue again.

      I asked her about it today, after reading your comment. She said that when she discusses something that she is angry about with me, and if she has decided that there will be a punishment, it is like she just puts all the feelings in a box and puts the box on a shelf. If she happens to think about it in the interim period, she just thinks "well that will be dealt with." Then, at the right time, she takes the box off the shelf and opens it, and all the feelings are right there where she left them.

      The good thing is that no matter what, the punishment resolves the feelings for both of us, so issues can be truly left in the past. I agree with Dan that most women (and most men for that matter) forgive, but never forget. However, the DD lifestyle does allow much better closure for her, as well as reduces the probability of me repeating the behavior, not so much to avoid punishment but rather because the punishment really allows her to express herself in a different way so I understand better how my actions make her feel. Once I understand the impact my actions or attitudes have on her, and because I love her, then I generally try to do better in the future. So DD definitely aids in the forgiveness process, and while it may not help her to forget, at least it makes it less likely that I will keep reminding her by doing the same things again and again.

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    5. BTW, forgot to sign the above.

      -ZM

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  6. While I had always reasoned that a calm well articulated approach including scolding was the best way to communicate my feelings, I must say having dished out a very angry spanking that it definitely got my message across. While calm I have responded to his pleas for leniency , while angry I really gave him a serious blistering and no question he won’t make that mistake again

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    1. Hi Sylvia,
      If it works for you that's great but both times it happened to me I was just scarred, not scarred the way one should be because a spanking is imminent but scarred and upset that things were not emotionally right with us. I will admit though that the behavior that provoked it ( losing my temper in public) has not been repeated and so maybe your point is made
      Alan

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  7. These are somewhat difficult questions to answer because there is an underlying conflict raging within me, at least on the intensity question. At every time other than during the actual punishment, I am wishing she would spank me much harder, much longer, and at least somewhat more frequently. However, during a spanking I am just wanting it to end, and soon! But then even within a minute or so after it does end, I am wishing that she would have continued much more and am sad that she went so easy on me. I guess that all this means that I really want and/or need this in my life, and I need it to be real, no matter how much it might hurt at the time. So, overall I want her to spank me more severely and for punishment sessions to last much, much longer than I want at the time.

    As for why I want this, probably it is because I need it to be real, and so that means that it must cross into the consensual non-consent territory where she continues well past the point I am dying for it to stop. I hope this doesn't open too much of a can of worms talking about the whole consent thing! Please remember everyone that she LOVES me, the she does this because I WANT IT (not her), and that I FULLY consent to her pushing me to the point that I am not liking it at the time. Also, because she loves me greatly and acts only out of love, she is certainly careful to not injure me, even as she is trying to inflict lots of very temporary pain.

    Moving on to things that I am more sure of - with no internal conflict at all - I definitely want her to be very verbally strict and firm during punishment sessions. I agree 100% with Alan about how it is really strictness, lectures, and scolding that I need during a spanking, rather than her being angry, not so much because of how much she might make my bottom hurt, but rather because I love her so intensely and really hate to see her hurt, upset, or angry.

    And overall I would very much like to see her be much more strict about setting and enforcing boundaries, because I think this is mostly why I need this whole thing. The punishment is just to make the boundaries real. I do not necessarily want her to set more boundaries, since there are already plenty of things that I can be punished for, but rather I want those boundaries that are set to be more strictly enforced. She would always be fair and understanding of circumstances, because she loves me, and that is just who she is. But at the same time, if she sets a boundary, I want it be real, and for her to be quick to enforce it if she sees that I am not taking it seriously.

    So in summary, I am wanting more consistently enforced boundaries, and for broken boundaries to result in harder, longer punishments. Who knows how the frequency would be affected if both of these were to happen, since she would be quicker to punish me, but at the same time I would be more careful about the agreed upon boundaries.
    -ZM

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    1. ZM, if I were to write about my own motivations, your comment is very, very close to what I would write. The one big exception is during and even after the spanking, I do NOT want her to spank harder. There was a time when I did, but no more. I do sometimes wish she would go longer, but that wish is almost always a few days after, never during.

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    2. Hi Dan,
      If you re-read my comment, during the spanking I do not want her to spank harder, and I want it to end ASAP. It is only right after the spanking that I wish it would have been harder and lasted longer. So the primary difference is that for you it takes several days to get to that point. I expect that it is because you have been at this longer; we are relative newbies, but I can certainly see the trend for us is towards much harder and longer punishments, so probably after we have been doing it for some years, I will be exactly the same as you as far as taking days (if ever) after a punishment to get to the point of wishing for more intensity or duration.

      -ZM

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    3. Sorry, I did mis-read that the first time.

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  8. Even if we ask for more or harder, it can be difficult for the wife to Guage just how hard to deliver.She can judge by his reaction as to whether it's hard enough but it is difficult for her to judge how to ramp it up.

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  9. Dan
    When Anna began DD she was a novice. I believe she told you here once that before she took me on, she went to a professional Domme and learned the basics. Like many men the desire for punishment is there until the punishment occurs, then it just hurts. We agreed from the start she will spank as hard as she wants until she says she is done. If I want her to stop i only need to say stop, but I also understand that will be the end of spankings.
    Anna has added many things that I personally hate. I must go to the room strip naked and then lay out every belt, brush, paddle, cane, etc on bed then quietly kneel in the corner nose to the wall and wait.Some sessions after i am spanked i have to return to the corner nose to the walls until she says i am free to get up. I HATE THE WAITING! both before and after.The time of waiting is in her hands. For example the night of the first Houston/ Dodgers game I was sent up to our room to wait. Then she and the boys watched the game on TV. I could barely hear any of it. Their cheers made me crazy. After the game the boys in bed, I was spanked harshly. Anna said she spanked me until she saw be release my own anger and accept all of my punishment.
    Peter
    p.s. wouldn't even after and we were in bed she wouldn't tell me who won. She said I could find out in the morning.

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    1. Hi Peter. That's definitely being strict. Thankfully, corner time has not been a part of our routine. Partially because it is pretty rare that I don't have a few hours of work after dinner and often on weekends, and she knows it isn't optional. But, if early retirement happens, I'm probably in trouble. Like you, I hate waiting on anything.

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    2. Meditation helps, with waiting.
      Early on, when assigned corner time, I would slip into mantra meditation, and not notice the passage of time.
      When Merry caught on, she started making me sing aloud some song like "Twinkle twinkle Little bat," to keep me in the "now".

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  10. When N. (my late first wife) and I agreed that she should be entitled to spank or whip me as she saw fit (i.e. for a "reason", but at her own discretion), I knew what I could expect... but soon found out that she could be a strict disciplinarian! There were indeed a few times when I pleaded for mercy (but to no avail)... but I also came to realize that, after a couple of minutes of vigorous paddling or whipping, my derrière was numbed to a point when I could stand - and even 'enjoy' the ongoing punishment... to the extent of being 'turned on' by the session, and let me half-dreading and half-desiring the next one - which never failed to happen soon later! I also had to get used, after a while, to being (occasionally) spanked in the presence of some of N's friends... one of whom was J , whom I later married, and who immediately made it clear that she would treat me in the way to which I had been accustomed - and has been unfailingly doing so over the past few years!
    L.

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    1. Thanks for your implicit appreciation of the way I have been keeping on enforcing the discipline that N. had initiated - including your being occasionally spanked under the eyes of a couple of my friends... and, mostly, of my sister who not only watches, but can also deliver a sound strapping or flogging whenever we get together - as I am sure you remember!
      J.

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  11. Hi all, a great topic. Here is my take. Generally I am pleased with the intensity of my spankings, both discipline and maintenance. Maintenance spankings are randomly scheduled and occur often enough to be effective. Discipline spankings are very few, as she does not like to administer them. I guess if I had to wish for something it would be she follow our agreement and list of offenses more to the letter. We visit the agreement and list of offenses every year on New Years Day, make tweaks and reaffirm our roles. Discipline spankings increase right after that for several months. Not in intensity but in occurrence. Last year just after New Years, I was spanked for some infraction. Later in the same day she came in carrying a hairbrush. Saying, "if we are doing this, we are doing it right, stand and present". I obeyed and got a sound hairbrush spanking for another offense I had not realized I ever committed. However, it tapers off and about this time of year I seldom get punished at all. In all, I really like our DD lifestyle and her spanking technique and intensity is great. I guess I am saying, I would like to be punished when I feel it is necessary. Aside from that, I want to live in a 24/7, female-led, DD relationship with her, just the way it has been going on for over 10 years.

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    1. At least it sounds like your annual DD commitment lasts longer than most of my own resolutions.

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  12. In our relationship it was me who wanted DD and Mistress initially embraced it to please me. It didn’t take long for Mistress to find her feet in an authoritarian role and become very strict. I found that I felt much closer to her when she embraced her role and accepted her authority – except I initially struggled to cope when our lifestyle spilled over outside the home and I was told off in public (even though I loved the idea of it in fantasy).
    As she felt ever more comfortable in her role, so we both felt closer to each other but began to struggle with consistency of our DD lifestyle, thanks to outside influences – family, work etc.
    I’d accept her strict demeanor and everything that went with it – but then we’d forget DD when outside influences came along and we’d be back to square one. I also weirdly struggled more with the infrequent corporal punishment than regular corporal punishment. This is when I refused her punishments and the thing went to pot.
    The interesting thing is that I think DD will work for us if we can focus on this side of our relationship with some consistency. With consistency you know exactly where you and what is expected of you.
    Do I want her to be more severe with me? Yes, because it helped define our roles before when she was becoming more severe and I loved her all the more for it.
    Do I want her more openly dominant with me? Yes, I do, even outside of the home because even though I find it painfully embarrassing in public, I think it helps with consistency and I think it’s something she enjoys so I’m happy to go along with it.
    Do I want more regular and more severe spankings? Well, no I don’t because they are painful experiences but for the sake of our DD I don’t think I have any choice but to expect regular and severe spankings.
    I think if you have a DD relationship there has to be a degree of severity in corporal punishment to be effective. I believe limits have to be pushed and if you sign up for a DD relationship then you’d better be ready to accept whatever punishment your wife or partner thinks is necessary to correct your faults.
    Have I told her all this? Yes, but as I think I’ve said before, she’s not willing to entertain resuming our DD until she is 100% sure that I’m ready to accept her authority without question. At her instruction, I’m reporting to a mentor on a regular basis who is dealing with my faults and issues, on information supplied by her.

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    1. Given the past refusal to comply, her unwillingness to move forward until you have been properly trained by someone else seems reasonable.

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  13. It's all been about feedback in our house, ever since I revealed my interest in CP/DD and how I felt that my slightly wild, often rude and frequently selfish behaviour could more easily be controlled with some simple, old style corporal punishment. She still finds it a little odd but very much sees and relishes the benefits in terms of an easier life, closer relationship and an accessible pressure valve to diffuse almost any tension. I enjoy the contradictory freedom that comes with having very clear boundaries.

    She expects feedback, normally via email after each session on how I am feeling, severity and restated apology as appropriate. We have an oversized egg timer in the bedroom (yes really!) which allows her to be more precise with the duration and she will do one, two or in extremis three turns of the timer depending on the 'transgression.

    She will also get out the various implements that I have procured over the years and lay them out within sight, racking up the severity to the heavy strap as the session proceeds. The earlier she moves to that fiery tool the more severe i know the session will be!

    She very rarely acts out of anger - there is normally a fair gap or it may be maintenance / racked up points / suitable timing and she seems to get a lot of mileage out of creating the nervous anticipation. During those times when we both know what is imminent are my best behaved and her most controlling. The few times she has reacted immediately with anger have been memorable for the severity and almost raw emotion - those sessions have been particularly painful.

    In summary I think severity is about right - TB

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    1. I totally understand the concept and attraction of the "contradictory freedome that comes with very clear boundaries."

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  14. We have a set of hourglass type timers as well. Who ever imagined that sand could go THAT SLOWLY?

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  15. In my case I want my cake and it eat it. I want the pleasure and feeling I get when being chastised by Mrs GL but I also want her to push on and spank harder, sometimes faster and also with more admonisment. However luckily for me I am patient, one day I will get the perfect combination off her and in the meantime I am grateful for what I recieve. Cheers Good Life Mickey.

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